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Author Topic: Q5/Q10 Pro is the first player who read SACD!  (Read 56879 times)

Nice Monkey

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Re: Q5/Q10 Pro is the first player who read SACD!
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2016, 02:15:37 PM »
The Q10 Pro does play high bit-rate FLAC files, including 88.2Khz (from SACD) and also 192Khz (from Blu-ray Pure Audio) as I have tested these when I finally got bitstreaming to work correctly (with the latest firmware).

It is a simple process to convert from SACD .iso image to lossless FLAC at the same bitrate using FooBar add-in.

Yes it plays lossless FLAC files, but only Stereo files NOT multichannel FLAC files. And it does some processing (at least KODI does) so multi-channel DTS encoded CD's in  FLAC stereo format also do not play correctly. Am I missing something in the System or Kodi setup to make this work?

Using Media Center it plays also MCH FLAC files. Nothing changed with new firmware here. Tested several files with different formats. Using standard Music Payer and also Total Commanders build in Music Player.

ppoulos

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Re: Q5/Q10 Pro is the first player who read SACD!
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2016, 02:32:28 PM »

Using Media Center it plays also MCH FLAC files. Nothing changed with new firmware here. Tested several files with different formats. Using standard Music Payer and also Total Commanders build in Music Player.

You are right, sorry... it does play lossless Multichannel FLAC files using the Media Center. Unfortunately it doesn't play these files using Kodi, which is what I would use to access my music library.

But it still must be modifying the lossless FLAC file somehow since my Pioneer SC-99 doesn't detect the DTS Encoded CD information in a lossless FLAC stereo stream. Those same stereo lossless FLAC files are play fine (with DTS Multichannel decoding) with the Dune Player (including the recently release Dune HD Solo 4K) and the Popcorn Hour (including the VTen).
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 02:50:08 PM by ppoulos »

looun

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Re: Q5/Q10 Pro is the first player who read SACD!
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2016, 02:54:30 PM »

Using Media Center it plays also MCH FLAC files. Nothing changed with new firmware here. Tested several files with different formats. Using standard Music Payer and also Total Commanders build in Music Player.

You are right, sorry... it does play lossless Multichannel FLAC files using the Media Center. Unfortunately it doesn't play these files using Kodi, which is what I would use to access my music library.

But it still must be modifying the lossless FLAC file somehow since my Pioneer SC-99 doesn't detect the DTS Encoded CD's in a lossless FLAC stereo stream (which the Dune Player can play fine including the recently release Dune HD Solo 4K).

i have playback DTS audio 5.1 CD( wave file ) like: enigma, pinkfloyd ecc..  without problem.

Phil181

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Re: Q5/Q10 Pro is the first player who read SACD!
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2016, 03:26:14 PM »

Yes it plays lossless FLAC files, but only Stereo files NOT multichannel FLAC files. And it does some processing (at least KODI does) so multi-channel DTS encoded CD's in  FLAC stereo format also do not play correctly. Am I missing something in the System or Kodi setup to make this work?

Media Player definitely plays 5.1 FLAC files.  Have not tried Kodi but it should if the wrapper is installed correctly?
It also will play a Blu-ray Pure Audio .iso file with 192Khz audio (as well as the 5.1 FLAC rip from the same disk of Beck's Sea Change).

ppoulos

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Re: Q5/Q10 Pro is the first player who read SACD!
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2016, 09:12:55 PM »

i have playback DTS audio 5.1 CD( wave file ) like: enigma, pinkfloyd ecc..  without problem.

Correct, if you actually play the original WAV file, the information is sent to the AVR and the DTS MultiChannel is decoded properly. However you should be able to change that WAV file into a lossless Flac or  ALAC (Apple Lossless Audio Codec) file and the AVR should still recognize that the audio stream is a 41,100 Hz DTS-encoded  Audio stream and decode it properly into 5.1 sound. Both the Dune Players and Popcorn Hour players successfully do this since they either passthrough the original lossless file to the AVR or they decode the lossless Flac or ALAC files into straight PCM without any processing. The AVR then sees the DTS encoding and plays the files correctly. I am basically implying that the Q10 Pro does not losslessly convert those FLAC files to PCM, but actually modifies them somehow (changing the volume or sampling frequency) so the AVR no longer recognizes the DTS 5.1 encoding.

Now back to the original discussion in this thread... the Q10 Pro current cannot decode DSF files (from SACD's), nor can it passthrough the original DSF files to my AVR untouched. Yes, you can convert the DSF files into lossless Flac. My conversion software's output sample rate is set to 192 kHz  to make the conversion as close to the original as possible using the encoding power of my MacPro. But if the Q10 Pro cannot send the Flac file losslessly (or a PCM lossless copy of the Flac file) to my AVR, but processes it on-the-fly, it introduces enough sonic differences that make a difference when I hear them, and certainly causes the receiver not to recognize the stream as a DTS 5.1 encoded CD.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 09:17:24 PM by ppoulos »

ppoulos

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Re: Q5/Q10 Pro is the first player who read SACD!
« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2016, 09:20:10 PM »

Media Player definitely plays 5.1 FLAC files.  Have not tried Kodi but it should if the wrapper is installed correctly?
It also will play a Blu-ray Pure Audio .iso file with 192Khz audio (as well as the 5.1 FLAC rip from the same disk of Beck's Sea Change).

I have installed the latest version of the Q10 Pro wrapper. So the wrapper currently must not be set to recognize different audio formats and play them back properly.

stack

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Re: Q5/Q10 Pro is the first player who read SACD!
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2016, 10:09:27 PM »
The Q10 Pro does play high bit-rate FLAC files, including 88.2Khz (from SACD) and also 192Khz (from Blu-ray Pure Audio) as I have tested these when I finally got bitstreaming to work correctly (with the latest firmware).

It is a simple process to convert from SACD .iso image to lossless FLAC at the same bitrate using FooBar add-in.

You mean to convert it directly in Q10pro?

looun

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Re: Q5/Q10 Pro is the first player who read SACD!
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2016, 11:05:09 PM »

Media Player definitely plays 5.1 FLAC files.  Have not tried Kodi but it should if the wrapper is installed correctly?
It also will play a Blu-ray Pure Audio .iso file with 192Khz audio (as well as the 5.1 FLAC rip from the same disk of Beck's Sea Change).

I have installed the latest version of the Q10 Pro wrapper. So the wrapper currently must not be set to recognize different audio formats and play them back properly.
so you talk about that Q10 pro nice to be support:
FLAC Decoding (PCM) - the only now support
FLAC  passtroguth
DSF/DFF Decoding (PCM)
DSF/DFF passtroguth

SACD iso i think it's not possible.

are you sure  there are AVR that actually decodes multichannel FLAC ?
my onkyo nr-818 playback  multichannel FLAC only to stereo from USB fle ,  if i playback  with himedia music: multichannel FLAC -> decodes to PCM HDMI -> my AVR have multichannel PCM.

Phil181

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Re: Q5/Q10 Pro is the first player who read SACD!
« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2016, 12:03:03 AM »
are you sure  there are AVR that actually decodes multichannel FLAC ?
my onkyo nr-818 playback  multichannel FLAC only to stereo from USB fle ,  if i playback  with himedia music: multichannel FLAC -> decodes to PCM HDMI -> my AVR have multichannel PCM.

Yes, I did extensive audio testing as the original firmware did not pass HD audio at all to my Yamaha Aventage (it was incompatible). 
The updated firmware now allows all bitstreams to pass through (I re-checked all those that did not pass before).
 
I have played high bitrate FLAC (192Khz) 5.1 and PCM 5.1 from the Q10 Pro and they output in multi-channel 5.1. 
My old WD TV was also able to pass 96Khz 5.1 FLAC audio through.  All testing files played were from my NAS .

Q10 Pro definitely it does not read SACD .iso files at this time.  It will play lossless FLAC files extracted/converted from the SACD .iso (on a PC using FooBar).
However, it definitely does read Pure Audio .iso files and passes them perfectly  ;D

looun

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Re: Q5/Q10 Pro is the first player who read SACD!
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2016, 10:48:25 AM »
My old WD TV was also able to pass 96Khz 5.1 FLAC audio through.  All testing files played were from my NAS .

ok ,but your AVR  can decoding 5.1 FLAC passtrought ? or decoding  only 2.0 ?

my onkyo can decoding 5.1 flac only as simple 2.0 stereo.

m-i-c-k-e-y

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Re: Q5/Q10 Pro is the first player who read SACD!
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2016, 12:03:08 PM »
I use HibyMusic (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.hiby.music&hl=en to play SACD .ISO .DSD .DSF as well as FLAC, MP3  or WAVfiles thru my USB DAC/AMP. Dont have an A/V or  Amplifier so I could not verify.

The App is free so you can verify it yourself.

Nice Monkey

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Re: Q5/Q10 Pro is the first player who read SACD!
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2016, 01:01:02 PM »
I use HibyMusic (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.hiby.music&hl=en to play SACD .ISO .DSD .DSF as well as FLAC, MP3  or WAVfiles thru my USB DAC/AMP. Dont have an A/V or  Amplifier so I could not verify.

The App is free so you can verify it yourself.

Will give it a go and report results here.

Did yesterday a test using Total Commander using it also as Media Player for Music.
I liked the user interface making it very easy to add individual pieces and entire folders (=albums) to a dynamically created playlist. Use this a lot. Meant to be run in the background (and TV OFF). 

Found 2 problems using Q10 Pro specifically (both not present using a Android Lollipop based Smart Phone):
- The APP relies on the Notification Bar for signaling and Pop-ups (which is removed on Q10 Pro). This can be compensated functionally by adding a "TC Main Menu" Button  and a "TC Media Player" button manually. The experience is different.
- The Main Menu ICON's for TC itself and Media Player are not displayed on the TOP line. Reported as a problem to creator Christian Ghisler. It is partially compensated by the 2 buttons added only. Saving Play-lists is e.g. not possible as a consequence.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 01:07:15 PM by Nice Monkey »

Phil181

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Re: Q5/Q10 Pro is the first player who read SACD!
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2016, 02:44:45 PM »
ok ,but your AVR  can decoding 5.1 FLAC passtrought ? or decoding  only 2.0 ?

my onkyo can decoding 5.1 flac only as simple 2.0 stereo.
Yes, the Q10 Pro passes to my Yamaha AVR and it plays all 5.1 channels for FLAC, AAC & PCM multi-channel 5.1.
Does not get downmixed to 2.0.
 
Perhaps also check your sample files with MediaInfo.  I found some of the Kodi samples linked were really only 2.0 and not the 5.1 audio they were supposed to be.

ppoulos

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Re: Q5/Q10 Pro is the first player who read SACD!
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2016, 02:47:13 PM »

so you talk about that Q10 pro nice to be support:
FLAC Decoding (PCM) - the only now support
FLAC  passtroguth
DSF/DFF Decoding (PCM)
DSF/DFF passtroguth

SACD iso i think it's not possible.

are you sure  there are AVR that actually decodes multichannel FLAC ?
my onkyo nr-818 playback  multichannel FLAC only to stereo from USB fle ,  if i playback  with himedia music: multichannel FLAC -> decodes to PCM HDMI -> my AVR have multichannel PCM.

Actually I think your are right... I suspect that the Pioneer SC-99 can connect to, find, and stream  multichannel audio files (DSF or Flac) but it will play them in Stereo. I will verify this later today. Considering this, the Q10 Pro does NOT convert the lossless FLAC files to PCM without introducing some modification of the original audio file... thus the reason that DTS-encoded DC's in FLAC format do not play properly through the Pioneer SC99.

Nice Monkey

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Re: Q5/Q10 Pro is the first player who read SACD!
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2016, 09:34:16 PM »
I use HibyMusic (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.hiby.music&hl=en to play SACD .ISO .DSD .DSF as well as FLAC, MP3  or WAVfiles thru my USB DAC/AMP. Dont have an A/V or  Amplifier so I could not verify.

The App is free so you can verify it yourself.

- The APP crashes my Pointer Mouse when doing an EXIT from HibyMusic. Need a reboot to restore it. It is the only APP doing this. It still works fine when using HibyMusic.
- It plays an SACD.ISO image but output is 2 channel PCM always even when MCH on the source. The Menu shows the correct DSD sample rate with 1-bit for it.

 

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