Dune HD Max 8K (Progress: CH-1 done, CH-2 SQ tests to do, Dune Answers added)

[Nice Monkey]

Specifications:
Maybe Futeko will add this model to the current Dune offerings in the future too?

Premium full-sized 8K Dolby Vision & HDR10+ Media Playerwith HDD rack, linear PSU, TCXO, Hi-Fi digital audio, advanced hardware. New flagship line of Dune HD 8K models (next generation after RTD1619DR models). High-End video quality, 8K, AV1, YouTube 8K HDR, Dolby Vision VS10, HD audio, ISO 4K...
https://www.dune-hd.com/products/dune-hd-max-8k
https://dune-shop.eu/collections/frontpage/products/dune-hd-max-8k
For technical details / specifications / pictures and prices. Shop prices are mostly the same € 879 within the EU.
It is a complete new design with new components used for really everything.

Obviously it uses the new Amlogic S928X-K/J based SOC compared with the previous Dune HD Max Vision 4K realizes associated additional goodies:
. 8K support paired with HDMI 2.1a interface for mainly higher bandwidth.
. AV1 support
. Improved VS10 dolby vision engine
. Faster processors and more memory making it reacting smoother using a 64-bit Android kernel (e.g. allows HDD > 16 TByte).
. Upgraded to new WiFi 6 plus BT 5.2 wireless module.
These improvements are common for all new Amlogic 8K models.

But the Max also has some unique other goodies:
. It comes with a TCXO (Temperature Compensated Crystal Oscillator) paired to XMOS intermediate processing. No it still is not best in class OCXO (Oven Controlled Crystal Oscillator) like an Eversolo DMP-A10 includes but that one is in a much higher price class. The XMOS is the original XU208 processor but that is less relevant as newer types where mainly meant to include MQA support with additional processing power (MQA is nowhere mentioned).
. It outputs Coax & Optical SPDIF, I2S-E(thernet) plus even HDMI Output via TCXO based clocking. This works as the motherboard is sharing the TCXO Crystal for its system clocking. Using a single crystal clock source for everything looks just fine to me and in fact always wondered why this was not done.
. That nice LPS, Noctua 120 mm smart fan is familiar from the 4K model and fortunately continued.
. The HDD mounting was upgraded with an anti-vibration mount using dampers. This way the HDD remains floating without making direct mechanical contact.
. Advanced Remote Control (microphone, IR learning, Air Mouse, backlight, IR mode)
. The front got a flap covering the HDD quick loading handle (similar to Zidoo models and Egreat even before that).
. It got auto voltage range switching instead of a manual switch. The Earth pin was dropped and replaced by an earthing screw. I do like earthing but it is not common in many countries so now one can still earth it when desired.

Fixed enabled analog RCA outputs connected to the SOC
Be aware it does not include a dedicated AKM/Sabre HiFi DAC module like the previous Dune HD Max 4K model has! The specifications do match with this reading them well but they don't make it obvious above all for those like me being familiar with the previous generation.

The RCA analog outputs are driven directly by the SOC. Sound Quality benefitting with the MAX specific build from the Linear PSU, special low noise power chip feeding that integrated DAC block and above all the TCXO clock used for the motherboard. This setup remembers me of my Egreat A11 having a very similar build.

Using the SOC directly has the implicit advantage that Analog Output will work concurrently always with any other output being used. Analog 2CH output is permanent available regardless any audio settings and MCH playing.  Some customers will appreciate this for sure.

Digital outputs:
In fact this is the main feature of this model needing special attention as it is different from most other players from Dune and others. HiFi outputs run via the XMOS processor with this model where typically used for USB DAC input with other models.
- HiFi I2S-E output via XMOS being implemented on an Ethernet physical type connector. RJ45 connector (pins 1-8: I2S_DATA/DSD_DATA1, GND, I2S_LRCK/DSD_DATA2, GND, I2S_BCLK/DSD_CLK, GND, DSDOE(1=DSD,0=PCM, GND). Mostly this is done on a HDMI physical type connector.
- HiFi S/PDIF Coaxial output via XMOS
- HiFi HDMI output using the same clock source as used by the XMOS processing
- S/PDIF Optical output (not running via XMOS which would not make sense due to its jitter)
- USB via the special high quality USB DAC output which may improve SQ when using an external USB DAC without XMOS intermediate processing. XMOS is typically provided by the receiving DAC with this setup. A quality error free USB output never harms anyway.
Be aware: The HiFi outputs running via XMOS and HDMI output are mutually exclusive. This works as a toggle/switch.

What Dune HD MAX 8K doesn't support anymore
. The SOC does not support 3D-BD playback being another well-known Amlogic S928X-K/J restriction.
. No HiFi DAC, only SOC integrated DAC with RCA analog outputs.
. Support for the 2nd HDMI 1.4 Audio only output, HDMI Input, 2.5/3.5 inch rear fixed HDD mounting and the OLED graphical display were all dropped.
If you are looking for any of these Dune Max Vision 4K available capabilities then look elsewhere.

It is an interesting unit with it seems a great value/money HW build seen above prices.
In my modest perception mostly less critical Dune Max Vision 4K features were swapped for more relevant new goodies. The only exception would be the 2nd HDMI Audio output provided it would also offer native DSD for SACD as found on some Zidoo players.

[Nice Monkey]

Review in the making:

Chapter-1: Unpacking, HW review and initial setup:

The unit was shipped by Dune in a double box and my shop had put it in a bigger 3rd one and arrived without any damages. It is a full metal player (steel case, aluminium front) with a matching hefty weight of over 6 Kg. Always good for adequate natural cooling.

Included in a separate box are power cables for all regions, HDMI 8K cable, the remote control, IR receiver and the detached WiFi antennas. The much smaller BT antenne is permanently attached to the player as it is needed for the BT remote control. Also included are a pair of 19" rack mounting brackets including the screws which is not that common for a player in this price range.
It finally includes a quick installation guide. This explains the function of all ports but above all is useful to configure the bundled BT/IR programmable remote control which features are not all intuitive. It is a nice remote but frankly prefer my old Dune Premium IR remote as it has more useful keys, but obviously misses voice control via BT.
Having a I2S-E(Ethernet) port one can easily make the mistake to put an Ethernet plug into it. That is exactly what I did wondering why my LAN was not working. Then saw that the real Ethernet port got a cover which I presume must be intended for the Is2-E port to exactly avoid this. Moved the supplied cover myself to the I2S-E port to avoid making the same error again.

The first thing to check was the mechanical noise levels as I just hate those noises even watching movies:
- No hum by the transformer as reported by a user fortunately.
- The fan was by default on auto and was observed as slow turning with a 3.5" HDD inserted still remaining inaudible. The drive remained only mildly warm pulling it out after watching a movie.
- Using manual fan control in steps of 10% it started to make audible noise at listening distance above 50%/60%. At 100% it is very audible but still not loud.
- The HDD housing is indeed very well silenced. Populating it with a 3.5" HDD produces little drive noises only which are hardly audible at listening distance. With a 2.5" HDD inserted using a caddy it could not be heard at all. Using a 2.5" HDD or SATA SSD is recommended by me for listening to music.

Power consumption measurements:
Standby power: 0.1W
Running idle: 9W
Running idle with HDD: 19W
Playing a movie from HDD: 23W
Running idle with sleeping HDD: 11W
Peak power starting up HDD: 46W

The Linear PSU fed by a fairly big sized shielded transformer and looks to have a decent capacity including dealing with a HDD. But actual PSU output power is nowhere specified. Seen the measurements it is 12V 4A confirmed by Dune staff. Tried hot swapping the HDD concurrently with an USB powered 2.5" HDD which caused no problems what so ever as expected. The Linear PSU part is switched off during standby to reduce energy consumption when not in use. My power measurements just confirm this and likewise for the HDD sleeping mode working as expected.

Next fired up the "Dune Control APP" which automatically found the new HD Max 8K player. No need to lookup and configure the IP-Address. The APP did not get an update over a long time but still does its jobs either as a remote control, as navigator or music player.
The OLED front panel isn't really missed by me as this APP offers the same in a far more convenient way. A good thing is that the APP navigator can work both in portrait and landscape views as some long filenames really need landscape to see full names.
Indeed prefer the simple time display offered now. This big enough display, to be read at seat distance, is nicely configurable for: Time, Playtime, Remaining Playtime or Off. This for video and/or audio individually. Optional icons can be enabled/disabled which I never saw before on any player. Some will appreciate this option for sure.

For connectivity tested an USB powered 2.5" HDD and also my USB powered CD/DVD player. The HDD worked but the CD/DVD player was powered but was not detected. Strange at it is found by my Dune HD Real Vision player and can read data disks next (commercial CD/DVD discs won't play).

Last did a FW update via OTA. Allowing "beta versions" this installed  "250403_2257_r22" without any problems. This FW will be the basis for any further testing.

Bottom line I really like the HW build of this player, in fact it is the best I have come across in this price range and I have seen plenty.


Chapter-2: Positioning and Practical experiences:

Positioning:
When to go for a Max is the main question answered here? The player is mainly intended and best suited to be used as a video or music player source making use of external connected quality DAC's. The HW design is optimized to do the best possible job here with special output port provisions to minimize impact of noise and providing an ultra stable clock signal using the TXCO crystal combined where essential with XMOS. For my own use I plan to use my Max for mainly Video connected via HDMI to my big Onkyo TX-RZ70 AMP making use of Dirac room correction on that one. Using it for local music albums remains te be seen but is considered.

The source being local disks, network drives and for video popular Video Streaming services with mentioned restrictions in the specifications.
One can use it also for most Video Streaming services if top SQ isn't a requirement. Services like Netflix may stop to work or offer restricted profiles only. When you are using just a TV (with maybe a soundbar) then the Google/Dune Homatics player may be a better and far cheaper choice as the optimized output differences probably aren't audible not forming the weakest part of the sound link.
Having a focus on Streaming Music services I hardly can recommend this player. Specific Music Players like made by Eversolo have a lot more to offer there. But those can be combined perfect with the Max being used for Video only.

Sound Quality experiences
Always remind these experiences are subjective like hell. Disagreeing with me is no point what so ever and won't be argued in anyway by me.

The only thing already done is using the RCA outputs to get a first impression of its Sound Quality comparing it with HDMI output using the DAC of my AMP. Switching over is extremely easy as both outputs remain active at the same time. The first impression is, it is really doing not a bad job at all. For me it could be labeled HiFi despite not deploying a famous DAC chip. The SQ differences with AMP output are minimal. As always will be doing some blind switching with a friend and add that experience.

The next compare will be using the special USB3 output cable connected to my Zidoo Neo X or Neo Alpha using them just as an external DAC. Also switching with my Eversolo DMP A6 will be tried but that requires synchronized playback on both players.

Video Player functionality:
Apart from connectivity using it special quality outputs this is mostly identical for all 8K models and for a big part even with the previous generation 4k models.
https://www.futeko.com/newforum/index.php?topic=5098.0
I am not sure yet to paste parts of my Dune HD Real Vision here or just provide the link?

An essential part and unique to Dune is the deployment of dedicated video players for viewing with Full Menu respectively Lite Menu. The Full Menu player works as close as possible identical to what Blu Ray Disc players offer. Not only the BD Menu is processed but also individual disc features available during playback mostly work as intended. The Lite Menu player is the same player with the same extended features as used for video container formats like MKV. All BD features during actual playback are then just ignored. I do appreciate this approach.
The only feature using Full Menu I dearly miss is the support for external subtitles. I wonder if supporting those is really conflictive as my OPPO UDP-203 real disc player can do it.

Above all Zidoo owners often critic the Dune GUI as being old school. What many aren't aware of is that the Dune GUI is quite flexible and that lots of aspects can be changed to once liking. Even the GUI language files can be exchanged for a custom language or updated to personal taste as the source is available online.
The next thing about the GUI that it is designed to integrate with selectable streaming services. The actual view is chosen to remain close to that of the very popular Netflix.

Music Player functionality:
The Music Player is kept basic without an extensive library for many views, sorts and search features. Regarding supported formats it does a good job playing most if not all desired audio formats. If you, like me have a big collection with multiple album formats organized in a matching folder structure, then you will like me mostly prefer to find and select albums using the Dune Navigator (=File Browser here). Using the Dune Control APP for this works excellent and is blazing fast. I do appreciate the landscape mode here as track names can be quite long.
Yes I have found some inconveniences here. The first one is missing the dynamic Internet lookup of Lyrics where and when desired.
The second one I do regard more as a flaw being gapless playback not working for MCH FLAC/WAV type of files. For me personally not a big issue as I have only very few live albums in that format and converting those to a single album file with a matching CUE sheet is easy enough to do.Gapless playback does not work for MCH albums having individual tracks. There is an Internal Player and and Internal HiFi Player for music which can be assigned in setup. Only the HiFi player plays gapless but plays only 2 CH tracks. Got this from Dune Staff after asking as it was not intuitive for me.


Conclusions and final verdict.
To be written.

[Nice Monkey]

This one for aggregated problems and inconveniences reported.

Problems
- Twice ended up loosing HDMI Sound output, but the Video then still works. Only solved by doing a full Factory Reset. Don't know when this occurs, maybe related to some change in settings? Never found toggling a setting getting the sound back. Very nasty.

Had it a third time and this time uploaded a dump first which was diagnosed by Dune. They told me it was caused by pressing the "MODE" key on my Premium Dune remote. As this key resides between "Audio"and "Subtitles" it easily happens unintentionally. Apparently this key toggles output directed via XMOS versus HDMI. In fact this turned out to be the root cause but brings up several new questions. This e.g. is conflictive and unsynchronized with XMOS and HDMI setting choices under setup.
Status reproduced: Needs further Dune actions. Also as-is it is far from intuitive.

- My USB Powered CD/DVD player is powered but not found. The same drive is found with my Dune HD Real Vision player and can read Data Discs.
Dune answer: CD/DVD player functionality is being worked on.

- The Youtube trailers for movies are found but actually none plays.
Known problem

- Some BD Menus won't work: "The Ten Commandments UHD" gets stuck on BD menu language selection,
Status: Sample uploaded
"Paramount BD's" the text/choice is invisible on the actual BD menu language selected but further works.
Status: Sample uploaded
"Criterion BD's: Selections can't be made for subtitles or audio formats if there are multiple. The fields are just not accessible.
Status: This is a known problem, planned to be fixed eventually.

Inconveniences:
- Open subtitles look up will by default only find English if system is set to English.
Configuring a different language for System will add that to the auto lookup as 2nd.
Configuring yet another language for Default Subtitles will add a 3rd language.
Much better would be having an independent setting for this allowing minimal 3 languages to be configured
Dune Answer: Will be fixed in an upcoming update

- Subtitles found are not stored. A new watch must be preceded with the same search over and over again. They should be stored by preference in the directory where the video is played from. This way they will be automatically reused even by many other media player brands.
Dune Answer: Will be fixed in an upcoming update

- Using Full Menu or Lite Menu use different players with different features which I do understand. It escapes me why the Full Menu player can't support external subtitles as my OPPO UDP-203 real disc player can do it. It often inhibits using  Full Menu.
Dune answer: Is under consideration

- Gapless playback does not work for MCH albums having individual tracks.
There is an Internal Player and and Internal HiFi Player for music which can be assigned in setup.
Dune answer: The Internal HiFi player plays gapless but plays only 2 CH tracks. The Internal player plays MCH but is not gapless.

- I am dearly missing the support for live Lyrics lookup playing music tracks.
Dune answer: Is under consideration

Questions for Dune:
- Does USB output support Native or DoP DSD output next to PCM for SACD albums?
Dune answer: At the moment, you can enable it manually by launching the following DSF files in the file browser:
Enable:
http://dune-hd.com/firmware/misc/dune_service_dsd_output_mode_native.dsf
Disable:
http://dune-hd.com/firmware/misc/dune_service_dsd_output_mode_pcm.dsf

- Which MCH DAC's are supported using I2S-E or USB outputs? ExaSound, Okto Research etc.
Dune answer: Only stereo DAC's are supported.

[Nice Monkey]

First chapter added.

Strange not a single comment.

[futeko.com]

Thanks for posting the review.

This forum is not as popular as it was a few years ago. We used to be the main global forum for HiMedia whereas Zidoo have their own forum. We decided not to attempt to compete with Zidoo's forum.

Dune Max 8K looks like a good product, as with the other Dune Amlogic 928 players. I'm not ruling out us stocking it but there is a limit to how many expensive products we can stock unless manufacturers offer us stock on credit (which they never do!). Choices have to be made.

[Nice Monkey]

Thanks' for the response. It is also posted (synchrone) on AVforum.
https://www.avforums.com/threads/dune-hd-max-8k-discussions-plus-coming-review.2523363/

I got my Max 8K player via a backorder only Dutch shop. Took roughly 2 weeks.

[Nice Monkey]

Updated after receiving excellent comments and corrections from Dune staff.

Above all the fact that the RCA Analog outputs were driven by the SOC integrated DAC was an eyeopener for me.
The specifications do match with this but don't make it obvious above all being familiar with the previous generation.

[Nice Monkey]

The "Problems, Inconveniences and Questions" topics were all answered by Dune staff. Thanks' to them

[Nice Monkey]

Chapter "Digital outputs" added. Problem "loosing HDMI Audio" updated.