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Author Topic: Frame drop every ~34 seconds with himediaplayer  (Read 48628 times)

dorol

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Re: Frame drop every ~34 seconds with himediaplayer
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2016, 04:45:37 PM »
Same here, only wrapper.
Kodi works well, but no AAC 5.1. :(
« Last Edit: July 22, 2016, 04:57:04 PM by dorol »

MikeDelta

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Re: Frame drop every ~34 seconds with himediaplayer
« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2016, 05:34:44 AM »
I have the same problem and we need a solution ASAP please!

Transit266

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Re: Frame drop every ~34 seconds with himediaplayer
« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2016, 09:44:17 AM »
For me, no stuttering at all. Just problem of passthrough AAC 5.1 (only pass as LPCM).

Xar18

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Re: Frame drop every ~34 seconds with himediaplayer
« Reply #33 on: July 25, 2016, 12:51:05 PM »
I have the stuttering also. Only purchased a few days ago. Very distracting. Have went back to my Mede8er 600xd already.

Disappointing as 4K playback via USB looks amazing, but watched a full movie in 1080p last night (mkv) and the judder was very distracting.

futeko.com

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Re: Frame drop every ~34 seconds with himediaplayer
« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2016, 01:05:43 PM »
HiMedia are aware of the problem and it's cause.

They are working on fixing it.

MikeDelta

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Re: Frame drop every ~34 seconds with himediaplayer
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2016, 05:52:09 AM »
HiMedia are aware of the problem and it's cause.

They are working on fixing it.

I hope so, talking about the frame drop problem which is horrible in most movies @1080p!

futeko.com

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Re: Frame drop every ~34 seconds with himediaplayer
« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2016, 09:00:02 AM »
Yes, I mean that problem.

It's been discovered that it's caused by a mismatch in reported fps to output Hz. The hardware is perfectly capable, it's just being fed wrong information. So cause is known. HiMedia just have to fix it.

Nice Monkey

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Re: Frame drop every ~34 seconds with himediaplayer
« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2016, 10:34:03 AM »
Yes, I mean that problem.

It's been discovered that it's caused by a mismatch in reported fps to output Hz. The hardware is perfectly capable, it's just being fed wrong information. So cause is known. HiMedia just have to fix it.

Many MKV movies report 24P when they really should report 24P/1001 instead. Have seen this numerous times as this problem has been around for many years already. You may expect players to play crummy content correctly by adjusting itself to this condition but calling it a bug is not really honest. Yes it is a real bug but within the program used to create the container with.
Why do many (older) other brand players not have this problem then? This is fairly easy to answer as most of current players just support 24P/1001 and call it 24P support, this regardless if 24P or 24P/1001 is reported. There are only very few real 24P movies circulating so very few people ever notice.

Now that Q10 Pro moved to the next level supporting all frame-rates correctly including distinguishing 24P from 24P/1001 it is observed as a degradation instead of an improvement. Very understandable but not technically correct. Mapping 24P back to 24P/1001 is a quick workaround which will bring one back to what other players are doing. In almost all cases it will have the desired effect as I repeat only few real 24P material exists. It can easily be done with a configurable auto frame-rate switch APP.

To deal correctly with this the frame-rate can be derived from the transport stream itself as a workaround. Doing so may in fact increase startup times for all movies checking for incorrect header information.  If implemented that way then I hope this will be done for MKV only or made an option if performance is influenced noticeably.
You can on the other hand solve it yourself easily by correcting the container which remedies the root cause.  I am clearly in favor of solving it that way. It also will make these videos play correctly with any other media player straight away. Honestly I would prefer Himedia to provide a simple (integrated) APP which adjusts/validates the header with the correct frame-rate information. This way the problem is eradicated instead of being spread. Together with the configurable auto frame-rate switch it provides an excellent and simple solution.

Always make BD ISO's myself from MKV movies again which re-inserts correct header and picture timing information. These files never give this error. Yes I know the file grows slightly bigger as the consequence and you may loose some by BD unsupported audio and subtitle streams. Recommend using the excellent freeware program tsMuxeR for this job. It is simple to use and is blazing fast as it never re-encodes.

By the way the whole 24P/1001, 30P/1001 and 60P/1001 confusion and standards is a leftover from the good old analog TV world with NTSC (Never The Same Color) as the US standard. Needing different carriers for the video and color signals it was implemented that way. Europe had PAL and SECAM not needing this.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2016, 02:56:56 PM by Nice Monkey »

Nice Monkey

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Re: Frame drop every ~34 seconds with himediaplayer
« Reply #38 on: July 27, 2016, 07:25:33 AM »
About testing frame-rate mismatching. Saw a few test files producing jitter posted here but these were unsuitable for testing frame-rate mismatches.
Also all image processing on your TV (and AMP) should be turned off. On some TV's that is already a challenge as some features are build related.

Frame-rate mismatches work on horizontal lines and produce line over-runs or under-runs at fixed time intervals. To test this one needs a vertical moving image preferable with a fixed content. I use myself standard movie material for this being the end credits available on most movies. Get a nice scrolling black and white text image and look for horizontal disruptions. The total image should scroll smooth as silk when the correct frame-rate is applied. Seeing the difference between 24P and 24P/1001 or other mismatches is easy and undeniable as they produce horizontal line disturbances at regular intervals.

In the past saw many media players with a similar problem they always used 24P also where they should apply 24P/1001 instead. They did it as a consequence for commercial BD's which in fact all are 24P/1001 and never 24P.

Obviously different video problems may overlap each other. Not getting confused or distracted by looking at different problems Is key in solving them.
For persons having problems please do this simple test and report if it is your problem or a different one. As most movies include end credits finding one to test should not be  a real problem.

« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 08:24:28 AM by Nice Monkey »

qqq1971

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Re: Frame drop every ~34 seconds with himediaplayer
« Reply #39 on: July 27, 2016, 08:46:33 AM »
Quote
Many MKV movies report 24P when they really should report 24P/1001 instead.

Do you want to say test video from first post has wrong header? If you saw first post you can see that HMP detect 23.976 video framerate and turn TV to 23.976Hz. And it is not mkv. It's m2ts container.

Quote
Saw a few test files producing jitter posted here but these were unsuitable for testing frame-rate mismatches

They are suitable to point that something is wrong with the player. It can be frame-rate mismatches (it's more possible) or another problem or multiple problems overlaping. It can be even wrong header if you shows that. There is not enough information to exactly say what root cause is. But if I see such drops on every 23.976 material I just believe my eyes and that test video i've found just simplifying demonstration of the problem.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 08:51:41 AM by qqq1971 »

Nice Monkey

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Re: Frame drop every ~34 seconds with himediaplayer
« Reply #40 on: July 27, 2016, 08:53:18 AM »
Quote
Many MKV movies report 24P when they really should report 24P/1001 instead.

Do you want to say test video from first post has wrong header? If you saw first post you can see that HMP detect 23.976 video framerate and turn TV to 23.976Hz. And it is not mkv. It's m2ts container.

Saw a few test files producing jitter posted here but these were unsuitable for testing frame-rate mismatches

They are suitable to point that something is wrong with the player. It can be frame-rate mismatches (it's more probably ) or another problem or multiple problems overlaping. It can be even wrong header if you shows that. There is not enought information to exactly say what root cause is. But if I see such drops on every 23.976 material I just believe my eyses and that test video i've found just simplifying demonstration of the problem.

No that file has very probably no frame-rate problem. My message is don't throw all problems on a heap but try to identify different problems where possible. That way they can be solved quick and efficiently. Looking for a needle in a haystack is not the thing to go for.
I am trying to help unbundling frame-rate originated problems from others like probably yours.  Himedia seems to be looking into frame-rate problems right now which I am sure exists too. But I am pretty sure by now that there is a mixed bag of problems reported here.

Of course everybody should report any problems found, but helping Himedia excluding/grouping reporting's will speed up fixes and that is good for everybody. Just saying "I detect a problem and they just should fix it asap" is very understandable but not the most effective. Of course everybody is entitled to do so, but I am convinced that extremely complex products like media players only can be improved well with the help of the community.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 09:16:39 AM by Nice Monkey »

qqq1971

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Re: Frame drop every ~34 seconds with himediaplayer
« Reply #41 on: July 27, 2016, 10:23:43 AM »
Quote
Of course everybody should report any problems found, but helping Himedia excluding/grouping reporting's will speed up fixes and that is good for everybody. Just saying "I detect a problem and they just should fix it asap" is very understandable but not the most effective. Of course everybody is entitled to do so, but I am convinced that extremely complex products like media players only can be improved well with the help of the community.

I agree in common with you. There is more then one problem. But since Himedia don't give us any diagnostic tool in most cases we can say only "I detect a problem and they just should fix it asap".  And then there is a field of possibilities to do nothing - "it is no problem for me", "may be your mistake", "your AVR incompatible" and so one. So if I can provide some information and my supposes of most possible root cause I will. Else Himedia will do nothing.

futeko.com

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Re: Frame drop every ~34 seconds with himediaplayer
« Reply #42 on: July 27, 2016, 03:46:59 PM »
I have posted a thread with a simple diagnostic tool. HiMedia are doing their own work on the problem but any help/info from the community is appreciated. http://www.futeko.com/newforum/index.php?topic=1086

MikeDelta

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Re: Frame drop every ~34 seconds with himediaplayer
« Reply #43 on: July 27, 2016, 09:15:47 PM »

Always make BD ISO's myself from MKV movies again which re-inserts correct header and picture timing information. These files never give this error. Yes I know the file grows slightly bigger as the consequence and you may loose some by BD unsupported audio and subtitle streams. Recommend using the excellent freeware program tsMuxeR for this job. It is simple to use and is blazing fast as it never re-encodes.


Cannot agree with it! Made a BD ISO from a mkv (untouched video, no reencode) and have the same frame drops! :(

Nice Monkey

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Re: Frame drop every ~34 seconds with himediaplayer
« Reply #44 on: July 28, 2016, 07:02:05 AM »
Cannot agree with it! Made a BD ISO from a mkv (untouched video, no reencode) and have the same frame drops! :(

It only helps if you have the incorrect frame-rate reported problem. Run the diagtool and do the credit scroll down test to verify.
If the tool says 24P in then you have the problem. For movies it should almost always be 24P/1001 (=23.976).

I presume the MKV is the same size as the original BD for the movie part (typically 30G to 40 G) if not it probably was already re-encoded when you got it.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 07:06:12 AM by Nice Monkey »

 

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