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Author Topic: 23.976 frame skips and microstutters  (Read 27109 times)

Robertjan88

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23.976 frame skips and microstutters
« on: June 29, 2016, 11:40:56 AM »
I am planning to buy the HiMedia Q5 PRO, but noticed it still has some issues with a type of content I am playing a lot.

Is there a planned fix for the frame skips and microstutters present at resolutions below 1920x1080 (like 720p and 1920x800 as in a re-encoded 2.40:1 aspect ratio MKV) when playing content in 23.976?

Till they release this fix, would it possible to just set the player to 24.000 to fix this? Even when the content is 23.976?

Thanks! :)


usul

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Re: 23.976 frame skips and microstutters
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2016, 11:50:24 AM »
I just set the player to 1080p/60.
It plays everything smooth,and I actually don't miss the 23.976fps setting..As 60fps looks perfect and no soap opera effect..

futeko.com

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Re: 23.976 frame skips and microstutters
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2016, 11:58:12 AM »
There are two issues here which I think you are confusing.

1. For content that isn't 1080p (1080 horizontal resolution) or 4K, auto framerate switching (i.e 60/50Hz to 23.976Hz or 24Hz) doesn't work in current firmware. Most TV's don't support 23.976 or 24Hz for 720p but what some other products (e.g. Popcorn Hour) do is upscale 720p24 to 1080p24. In the short term this is likely to be what Himedia do with Q5/Q10 Pro. Longer term they are also looking at native 720p24 output, but this requires more work from the chipset manufacturer, HiSilicon.

2. Some customers have reported more general 'microstuttering' for all 23.976 content. This is still somewhat contentious and seems to depend on your TV/projector. Some customers with excellent equipment do not notice this at all, whereas some with similarly excellent equipment see it as a big problem. HiMedia are collecting data and will work to improve this too.

Alter_Schwede62

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Re: 23.976 frame skips and microstutters
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2016, 11:58:51 AM »
I for several weeks used 1080p/60Hz and thought that everything was smooth, but it is not!
Too in 1080p/60Hz there are Microstutters!
I finally realized that, when I was able to compare the new Pro with the elder Q5, which really plays it nearly 100% stutter free.
It is not 100% but very near.
Meanwhile I am using a player, that does it 100% stutter free, but this is a bit more expensive, compared to the Himedia Players.

pcristi

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Re: 23.976 frame skips and microstutters
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2016, 12:34:17 PM »
What is version firmware install/use on Q5 4K3D for this period?

Q5, which really plays it nearly 100% stutter free.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2016, 01:40:03 PM by pcristi »

Robertjan88

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Re: 23.976 frame skips and microstutters
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2016, 01:08:29 PM »
There are two issues here which I think you are confusing.

1. For content that isn't 1080p (1080 horizontal resolution) or 4K, auto framerate switching (i.e 60/50Hz to 23.976Hz or 24Hz) doesn't work in current firmware. Most TV's don't support 23.976 or 24Hz for 720p but what some other products (e.g. Popcorn Hour) do is upscale 720p24 to 1080p24. In the short term this is likely to be what Himedia do with Q5/Q10 Pro. Longer term they are also looking at native 720p24 output, but this requires more work from the chipset manufacturer, HiSilicon.

2. Some customers have reported more general 'microstuttering' for all 23.976 content. This is still somewhat contentious and seems to depend on your TV/projector. Some customers with excellent equipment do not notice this at all, whereas some with similarly excellent equipment see it as a big problem. HiMedia are collecting data and will work to improve this too.

I recently bought a Samsung KS8000 4k TV. When I put the player on 1080p 60HZ or 4k 60HZ will I be able to always play without the above problems? Can I leave the player always in 4k 60HZ and still play the 1080p and 720p properly? At the moment I have my 2TB external powered HDD directly connected to my TV, hover since a couple of days the build in player keeps indexing. I think this has to do with the fact that I have over 800 folders (1400GB) with files on the HDD. Not sure though, but I want to mke sure the HiMedia will be able to manage this and playback as great as my TV does when playing it from the HDD directly

Alter_Schwede62

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Re: 23.976 frame skips and microstutters
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2016, 01:22:55 PM »
No Problem, Robert, I have nearly 20TB on four HDDs, that are easily managed by all Himedia players.
I use a case from Fantec.

pcristi, I always was using the latest original Firmwares for the players (Q5 4k and Q10 Pro).

futeko.com

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Re: 23.976 frame skips and microstutters
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2016, 02:32:24 PM »
I recently bought a Samsung KS8000 4k TV. When I put the player on 1080p 60HZ or 4k 60HZ will I be able to always play without the above problems? Can I leave the player always in 4k 60HZ and still play the 1080p and 720p properly?

Customer experience differs. It's down partly to perception (exactly what each person's eyes see is not the same) and maybe also some hardware plays better with Q5/Q10 Pro than others. It's broadly the same for all media playback products. I think you'll be fine with that TV.

In general people are happy with Q5/Q10 Pro and those little niggles that do exist will be fixed/improved by HiMedia.

Robertjan88

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Re: 23.976 frame skips and microstutters
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2016, 04:11:02 PM »
I recently bought a Samsung KS8000 4k TV. When I put the player on 1080p 60HZ or 4k 60HZ will I be able to always play without the above problems? Can I leave the player always in 4k 60HZ and still play the 1080p and 720p properly?

Customer experience differs. It's down partly to perception (exactly what each person's eyes see is not the same) and maybe also some hardware plays better with Q5/Q10 Pro than others. It's broadly the same for all media playback products. I think you'll be fine with that TV.

In general people are happy with Q5/Q10 Pro and those little niggles that do exist will be fixed/improved by HiMedia.

But for the moment settig the player to a fixed 60HZ would fix it? And can I leave it in 4k60Hz regardless whay content I play (1080p, 720p) without issues?

Alter_Schwede62

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Re: 23.976 frame skips and microstutters
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2016, 05:28:38 PM »
Nearly without issues. It still stutters a bit here and there....   :-\

hdmkv

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Re: 23.976 frame skips and microstutters
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2016, 10:30:01 PM »
Think microstutters or frame jumps were present with previous-gen Q5 4K and Q10 4K as well, even with last f/w.

With Q10 Pro, it's more subtle and hard to nail down stutter pattern. Sometimes I don't notice it, other times about a dozen times in a 2-hour movie.
Hi-deft Media Keen Videosaurus

MikeDelta

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Re: 23.976 frame skips and microstutters
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2016, 05:57:43 AM »
I for several weeks used 1080p/60Hz and thought that everything was smooth, but it is not!
Too in 1080p/60Hz there are Microstutters!
I finally realized that, when I was able to compare the new Pro with the elder Q5, which really plays it nearly 100% stutter free.
It is not 100% but very near.

Me too... Microstutters at 1080p/60Hz... i hope HiMedia will fix this big problem in the nearest future!   :-[
Kind Regards!
Mike

Mediaplayer: Dune HD Pro Vision 4K Solo
A/V-Receiver: Denon AVRX4400H 9.2
TV: Panasonic LG G1 OLED
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DancesWithChickens

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Re: 23.976 frame skips and microstutters
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2016, 09:54:47 AM »
I don't have any problems with playing files from a hdd, but i get microstutters when using the YouTube addon within KODI... some videos will also have a frozen picture ~ 5 seconds before the video ends.
The stuttering is mostly noticable when watching YT vids from edited together footage - like lists from the WhatCulture channel.

Dutch

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Re: 23.976 frame skips and microstutters
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2016, 07:13:58 PM »
Can anyone confirm that Himedia is even addressing the micro-stutter flaw?

futeko.com

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Re: 23.976 frame skips and microstutters
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2016, 08:19:32 PM »
HiMedia are taking the micro-stutter issue very seriously. But it is important to clarify what this problem is and isn't.

Youtube stuttering is a different issue (at least partly down to Youtube app). As is 1080p 60Hz (23.976 / 24hz video will stutter occasionally at 1080p 60hz, it is inevitable). As is no 23.976 at resolutions below 1080p (this will be fixed in FW next week).

The microstutter issue relates to some users with some hardware (and only some - many users see no problem) reporting occasional stuttering with 23.976 material played via 23.976 capable TVs/projectors.

HiMedia told me this week that they will have fixed the microstutter issue completely within the next couple of weeks. They certainly understand the problem and because they have a close relationship with the chipset manufacturer (HiSilicon) they no doubt can fix it.

The will and technical capability are both there.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2016, 08:21:46 PM by futeko.com »

 

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