hdr dim and washed out

[albatroz]

Just set your TV's correctly for HDR and UHD deep color and plug in the right HDMI slot, etc...

everything is adjusted correctly uhd color is open for all ports 4.2.0 10 bit selected from media player, hdr demos look great on youtube and also with media player but those downloaded as hdr torrents are too dim washed out.

[lonewolf7002`]

What brightness setting do you have you set for SDR, and for HDR?

it is the same for both backlight at 20 and brightness at 0 ? have seen people with sony x900e or x900f also reported the same issue on another forums it is a lot more common with samsungs though, samsung tv's hdr implementation is worst for their tvs and also imprex engine doesnt affect picture when hdr movie is playing hdr saturation picture mode have no effect on picture despite changing it to max ?m open to suggestions but everything is set correctly.

If both SDR and HDR have backlight set to 20, then that's your problem right there. SDR will be displayed on your TV MUCH brighter than intended. HDR has the capability of much brighter highlights than SDR but if both are set to the same backlight then the average picture level of HDR will be much lower, hence by comparison to your SDR settings HDR will appear a lot darker. The mu 9000 series only has a max brightness of about 500 nits, so it won't get terribly bright in HDR to begin with, but you have your SDR set too bright (compared to expected calibrated settings of 100 nits).

For comparison, I've got a TV that can do 1600 nits of brightness. It's also a Samsung and was about the best HDR TV in 2016. HDR looks fantastic! My SDR backlight is set to 7, HDR is set to 20. On average movies in SDR and HDR are about the same average brightness, except for when HDR calls for brightness and then it can get blinding.

If you prefer a really super bright blinding picture when watching SDR, you won't be able to match the brightness in HDR especially on a TV that has limited maximum brightness. This was an extremely common problem when HDR material first started coming out and people were trying to figure out how it was supposed to look, which made it tougher when they liked to watch at much brighter than reference levels. HDR is intended for watching in a darkened room, with an average picture level matching calibrated SDR brightness of ~100 nits. I'm not surprised you're having issues.

[albatroz]

What brightness setting do you have you set for SDR, and for HDR?

it is the same for both backlight at 20 and brightness at 0 ? have seen people with sony x900e or x900f also reported the same issue on another forums it is a lot more common with samsungs though, samsung tv's hdr implementation is worst for their tvs and also imprex engine doesnt affect picture when hdr movie is playing hdr saturation picture mode have no effect on picture despite changing it to max ?m open to suggestions but everything is set correctly.

If both SDR and HDR have backlight set to 20, then that's your problem right there. SDR will be displayed on your TV MUCH brighter than intended. HDR has the capability of much brighter highlights than SDR but if both are set to the same backlight then the average picture level of HDR will be much lower, hence by comparison to your SDR settings HDR will appear a lot darker. The mu 9000 series only has a max brightness of about 500 nits, so it won't get terribly bright in HDR to begin with, but you have your SDR set too bright (compared to expected calibrated settings of 100 nits).

For comparison, I've got a TV that can do 1600 nits of brightness. It's also a Samsung and was about the best HDR TV in 2016. HDR looks fantastic! My SDR backlight is set to 7, HDR is set to 20. On average movies in SDR and HDR are about the same average brightness, except for when HDR calls for brightness and then it can get blinding.

If you prefer a really super bright blinding picture when watching SDR, you won't be able to match the brightness in HDR especially on a TV that has limited maximum brightness. This was an extremely common problem when HDR material first started coming out and people were trying to figure out how it was supposed to look, which made it tougher when they liked to watch at much brighter than reference levels. HDR is intended for watching in a darkened room, with an average picture level matching calibrated SDR brightness of ~100 nits. I'm not surprised you're having issues.

as far as ? understand from your depiction you have ks 8000 or 9000 series tv checked from ratings . com and your ks and mu 9000 has almost the same peak brightness levels for hdr content also ? disagree about using sdr at backlight 7 you should get brigher highlights and more poped up colors with hdr even both sdr and hdr were used at 20 backlight due to higher dynamic tone mapping but ? think the problem is about tv's hdr and sdr peak brightness being the same, due to hdr's darkening image you should have at least 2x brightness lets say for sdr if it is 400 it must be at least 800 nits to get decent brightness at least on par with 400 sdr.

[lonewolf7002`]

I do have the KS8000 According to Rtings, max HDR brightness on a KS8000 is 1431 nits. Max HDR brightness on a MU9000 is 609 nits. This is a HUGE difference in max brightness levels, which will affect HDR results between the two. They aren't even close.

As for disagreeing with SDR backlight being at 7, you are free to set it whatever you want. But do keep in mind that the brighter you have the SDR backlight, the darker HDR will be in comparison since once you set HDR to max backlight you can't make it any brighter.

It might be easier to explain using reference brightness. SDR is intended to be about 100 nits of brightness. On my TV that's a backlight of 6-7. HDR is meant to have an average picture level brightness of 100 nits to match the exact same brightness as SDR. Highlights will go MUCH brighter than 100 nits in HDR, but the average normal picture will be within 100 nits. To get this, I need to set my HDR backlight to 20. This way, when I switch back and forth between SDR and HDR the picture - on average - will be the same brightness as each other. Until bright highlights are called for, and then HDR can get much brighter.

The problem comes in when you crank the backlight in SDR. Maybe the person likes a super bright picture, or they watch in a room with a lot of ambient light, or whatever. So you crank the SDR brightness up and your SDR is no longer a max of 100 nits - it goes up to 400 nits or 600 nits. Guess what happens when you switch over to HDR with the backlight set to max - the average picture level is still 100 nits. You go from SDR with an average of 600 nits to HDR with an average of 100 nits. OF COURSE it's going to be darker. You said earlier that you have your SDR backlight maxed at 20. HDR is always going to be much dimmer than SDR when you do that. Always. If I crank SDR backlight on my KS8000 to 20, then HDR is going to be very dim in comparison. I have a darkened room and prefer reference brightness, so when I switch back and forth between SDR and HDR they both have roughly the same average brightness.

If you NEED to have SDR backlight maxed at 20, then HDR isn't going to be your friend. I don't believe there is an HDR TV available yet that can provide that much brightness in HDR to compare with SDR being overdriven that much. You would need the equivalent of a backlight setting around 50 for HDR to compete. That's not to say you aren't having other issues, but when it comes to HDR being so much dimmer than SDR for you, your settings are making it so. As I said before, I'm not surprised you are having problems.

[albatroz]

I do have the KS8000 According to Rtings, max HDR brightness on a KS8000 is 1431 nits. Max HDR brightness on a MU9000 is 609 nits. This is a HUGE difference in max brightness levels, which will affect HDR results between the two. They aren't even close.

As for disagreeing with SDR backlight being at 7, you are free to set it whatever you want. But do keep in mind that the brighter you have the SDR backlight, the darker HDR will be in comparison since once you set HDR to max backlight you can't make it any brighter.

It might be easier to explain using reference brightness. SDR is intended to be about 100 nits of brightness. On my TV that's a backlight of 6-7. HDR is meant to have an average picture level brightness of 100 nits to match the exact same brightness as SDR. Highlights will go MUCH brighter than 100 nits in HDR, but the average normal picture will be within 100 nits. To get this, I need to set my HDR backlight to 20. This way, when I switch back and forth between SDR and HDR the picture - on average - will be the same brightness as each other. Until bright highlights are called for, and then HDR can get much brighter.

The problem comes in when you crank the backlight in SDR. Maybe the person likes a super bright picture, or they watch in a room with a lot of ambient light, or whatever. So you crank the SDR brightness up and your SDR is no longer a max of 100 nits - it goes up to 400 nits or 600 nits. Guess what happens when you switch over to HDR with the backlight set to max - the average picture level is still 100 nits. You go from SDR with an average of 600 nits to HDR with an average of 100 nits. OF COURSE it's going to be darker. You said earlier that you have your SDR backlight maxed at 20. HDR is always going to be much dimmer than SDR when you do that. Always. If I crank SDR backlight on my KS8000 to 20, then HDR is going to be very dim in comparison. I have a darkened room and prefer reference brightness, so when I switch back and forth between SDR and HDR they both have roughly the same average brightness.

If you NEED to have SDR backlight maxed at 20, then HDR isn't going to be your friend. I don't believe there is an HDR TV available yet that can provide that much brightness in HDR to compare with SDR being overdriven that much. You would need the equivalent of a backlight setting around 50 for HDR to compete. That's not to say you aren't having other issues, but when it comes to HDR being so much dimmer than SDR for you, your settings are making it so. As I said before, I'm not surprised you are having problems.

those nit values you gave were from HDR Peak 10% Window ? guess we should be concerned with real scene peak brightness.Also you might be right on saying sdr should be set at lower baclight comparing to hdr to achive similar brightness thing but overall hdr was huge disappointment with darker image and making whole screen dim might be also related with poor hdr implementation of mu series also ? think hdr tvs should use at least 1000 nits for hdr mode to not disappoint do you have any other advice for getting better hdr picture quality other than lowering backlight for sdr ?
And those who have lg oled and sony x900f or samsung q7 q8fn what was your hdr experience like?

[lonewolf7002`]

Albatroz,

You say we should be concerned with real scene peak brightness, and that's exactly why I look at the 10% and 2% patterns. I've watched a lot of HDR video, and in general it seems only highlights that have extreme brightness. Things like a flashlight or headlights, or the sun reflecting off waves in a stream, neon letters, etc. Those only take a small portion of the screen at any one time. I don't recall too many times that a large portion of the screen went to really high brightness. Not to say it never happens, but for me I mostly concern myself with 2% and 10% window readings.

I do agree that having an HDR TV capable of at least 1000 nits will provide the best experience. If you look at metadata on HDR streams, most are either mastered at 1000 nits or 4000 nits. If it's mastered at 1000 nits then no tone mapping is involved. Even with 4000 nit mastered media the peak brightness doesn't often go over 1000 nits anyway - at least in the ones I've looked at.

I can't comment on how good the implementation of HDR is on the mu series since I haven't spent any amount of time evaluating it. I can say that on the KS series, with well done HDR, it's a nice improvement over SDR.

As for getting a better HDR picture, I'd try this first as a test. Make your room as dark as possible, or wait till late in the evening and keep all lights off. Turn your SDR backlight down to 6 or 7, then switch back and forth between an SDR movie and an HDR movie. Try and get the average brightness to be about the same, lowering or raising the SDR backlight as needed. How does the HDR picture look compared to SDR with the backlight adjusted? Try a couple different HDR movies. If HDR doesn't look as good as SDR when the brightness is matched, it's possible you may need to adjust your HDR settings.

You could try Dynamic Contrast set to Med or High, or you could try setting the Gamma to 1. If you set it higher you could get more brightness but at the expense of washing out the picture. See if any of that works for you.