Alternative DAC solution to Zidoo UHD2000/X20 Pro (Dune HD Ultra 4K / Eweat R11)

[MusiCManiaC]

I will choose the Polish company MELODIKA cable, especially in these times it is worth supporting the native industry

https://allegro.pl/oferta/kabel-audio-2rca-2rca-cinch-melodika-md2r10-1m-6094879874

Only in this cable I do not see information about double shielding.

[Nice Monkey]

I will choose the Polish company MELODIKA cable, especially in these times it is worth supporting the native industry

Only in this cable I do not see information about double shielding.

Seen the picture should be a quality cable. Happy listening.

[MusiCManiaC]

I will choose the Polish company MELODIKA cable, especially in these times it is worth supporting the native industry

Only in this cable I do not see information about double shielding.

Seen the picture should be a quality cable. Happy listening.

Thank You and write please, how will I know that I use sabre audio panel?

[Nice Monkey]

Thank You and write please, how will I know that I use sabre audio panel?

Very simple the RCA+XLR outputs on the back at the right are directly wired to the Sabre DAC. So no possible confusion there.

If you use these the signal runs via the Audio Panel for sure. 
Just have a look at the picture. You can even clearly identify the dedicated amp sections for XLR left+right and RCA (each also with a cutoff relay). Neatly designed board for sure.

[MusiCManiaC]

Nice Monkey I am asking for information -  How I will be able to get the Atmos sound?  Atmos is only supported via HDMI , so having sound connected with RCA if i want to see a movie with Atmos I need to change the settings?

[Nice Monkey]

Yes, you got it! 

For Music using Stereo via the DAC and for Movies using MCH via HDMI. Is a bit clumsy using an External USB DAC. 

Using UHD2000/X20 Pro it is a bit easier but still output modes must be changed for the Zidoo Audio setup (easiest using Zidoo Controller APP) + Changing the Input port on the AMP used.

Might get a UHD2000 or Zidoo X finally just for conveniency myself. 

[MusiCManiaC]

Thank you for your help Nice Monkey, I finally got the RCA connection but, I have tried several configurations:
Music from hiby player via hdmi
Music from hiby player via RCA
Music from zidoo player via hdmi
Music from zidoo player via RCA
And to tell you honestly, I don't hear too much difference ,Of course, I'm not an audiophile and I don't have absolute hearing . However, I expected to improve the sound quality via RCA.
Perhaps this is due to the fact that my music system is not from the top shelf.
 

[Nice Monkey]

And to tell you honestly, I don't hear too much difference
 

A few things to keep in mind:
- Zidoo Music Player got ironed out the quality problems with playback. So hearing sound differences between HibyMusic and Zidoo Music Player is not to be expected. It is just a matter of user preference to use the one or the other APP.
- Hearing the quality difference for RCA and HDMI should be possible but:
.... The better the DAC within the AMP the smaller the difference with using RCA.
.... The better the speakers and amplifier part of the AMP the bigger the difference
.... It all starts with the source. The better the recording the bigger the difference can be. Use HD-Tracks or SACD as source material when possible. Cheap CD collection albums mostly won't do for comparison but in general quality differences between albums can be huge. As a curious example the 1996 re-mastered CD version of the first Dire Straits album sounds far better than the original mastered SACD!

Don't just listen to frequencies give attention to positioning and preciseness of the reproduction. Can you hear all instruments individually and are they heard in the correct positions with a full spread left to right? 

Bottomline it is all about the weakest link. That isn't necessarily the DAC but for many installations the speakers. In my own setup it most likely is increasingly becoming this poor old mans hearing. 

[Nice Monkey]

A surprise update for me now Egreat is coming with the A15.
Egreat launched the Egreat A15 which looks a lot like a Zidoo UHD2000 clone but surprise coming as an improved version of that already excellent unit. The weakest point of the Zidoo for me is the heat and noise handling when used with (dual) HDD's put into the slots. Egreat seems to have improved upon that part. Having a Egreat A11 myself I must say that they did for sure a better job already there and this one comes with further improvements in this area.
See the added section for more details. No URL given as they are all in Chinese.
Saw a price around €900,- converted from Yuan.

The really big question mark for me is the FW coming with it, but again one can always use the excellent HibyMusic APP with it using a Pointer Mouse. For sure that one works here again too as it does on all others.

Updated the Zidoo UHD2000 part
This after playing with that one myself for several weeks.
Even a lot more details from me can be found here:
http://forum.zidoo.tv/index.php?threads/practical-experiences-using-the-uhd2000-compared-to-z9s-usb-dac.78722/

Heavily updated "All you need to know about SACD options and ISO/DSF/DFF file formats" section as that is complicated and (mostly) unknown by many. It is essential though to understand why some SACD/DSD sources are unsupported, will not play or won't play well.
http://forum.zidoo.tv/index.php?threads/tutorial-sacd-options-and-iso-dsf-dff-file-formats.79385/
Moved next to a Zidoo location to make space here.

[Nice Monkey]

Connected my Amanero based USB DIY-kit DAC to my Z9X and with FW 6.1.05 it is now recognized playing both HD PCM and DoP DSD flawless. This using Music Player 6 which obviously integrates nicely using the standard remote control or the Zidoo Controller APP.
When connecting it reports nicely the brand found and which PCM formats are supported by it.
In fact switching between DSD64 and DSD128 causing problems using UAPP works just fine using MP6. 

I understand it is picky which DAC's are recognized. Seen the many updates products like USB Audio Player Pro (UAPP) did to get most working that is not to be assumed as common.
I think it is pretty safe to presume all XMOS and Amanero based USB DAC's will work.

This is my last update as I actually sold my unit. Was replaced with a Zidoo UHD3000 having an integrated DAC which is easier to use as it works with Zidoo Controller or standard Remote Control.

[SeanHorton]

Got myself a DIY-kit USB DAC and use USB Audio Pro Player APP together with it. The main reasons are getting native SACD/DSD playback. This without spending a fortune but still getting a top quality sound. 

SABRE ESS ES9038PRO based DIY DAC
This is a solid DAC design around the SABRE ESS ES9038PRO chip using quality components with over-sized dual linear PSU's for analog and digital sections respectively. It is including a front display and even a remote control which is not really needed. The HW-build is high quality both outside and inside. My ordered gold bundle 2 version is € 410 fully assembled, tested and inclusive Dutch taxes. One can also get all included components separately for true DIY custom builds.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ES9...ION-XMOS-Or-Amanero-USB-NEW/32895957403.html?

Interesting cheaper alternatives here:
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...io-Amp-Bluetooth-5-0/327509_32902945373.html?
This one costs € 146,- also fully assembled. It uses the ES9038Q2M chip has no XLR, uses standard AMP's and includes a far simpler external PSU. But it includes a remote, has a headphone output and even outputs via BT. It includes a brick external PSU.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New...-Amanero-USB-audio-finished/32884545046.html?
This one is only € 137,- fully assembled without a remote, headphone or BT but including a higher quality build-in linear PSU.
Both are great value for money and straight comparable with the audio panel of a Zidoo X20 Pro. The sound quality should be on par but additionally having USB plus SPDIF interfaces.

Using the remote control with my DIY-kit one can quickly choose the Digital Filter (7) for PCM conversion and the low-pass band filter (4) for DSD conversion:
- The Digital Filter is set at the "fast roll off minimum phase filter" for minimal audible impact.
Default was "fast roll off linear phase filter"
- The Analog Filter is set at "47 kHz" for maximum high frequency filtering.
Default was "60 kHz".
With the remote also the output volume can be controlled and mute be switched on/off.
It does not allow other ES9038PRO parameters to be altered. The defaults applied seem to be doing the correct job though.

What differentiates this unit mostly from (very) expensive ES9038 based branded DAC's is the use of the internal ess-es9038pro digital filters rather than a custom designed DSP based proprietary digital filter. It should be very challenging to hear the difference as each new SABRE version of their ESS series DAC's improved and added more digital filters to choose from. Be aware those digital filters are for PCM => Analog conversion only. For true DSD => Analog conversion (like this chip does) only simple low-pass filters are used instead.
Expensive DAC versions also may use 2 ESS9038 Pro chips being one for the Left Channel and the other one for the Right Channel. SABRE ESS series DAC's all are 8-channel capable but to compensate design tolerances for 24-bit conversion DAC designs often bundle 4 or 8 channels to as single output. This averages out build tolerances to a certain degree. Hence the deployment of one or two chips for stereo output only.
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...l?spm=2114.10010108.1000023.19.41026cd4qFV5Lw
Full HT 8-channel DAC's often use 4 SABRE chips for exactly that same reason. We see this design above all in top of the line UHD-BD players with discrete 8-channel analog outputs.
Last the oscillators used for clocking may be specific for 44.1 and 48 Khz multiples and may also be temperature compensated for ultimate stability.

My DIY-kit also includes the optional XMOS/Amanero USB audio processor panel. This panel is used to interface USB with the SABRE ES9038 DAC:
Digital Audio over USB => XMOS/Amanero => ES9038 => Analog RCA/XLR.
It next to improving audio quality directly as such also enables all HD audio features of that excellent DAC to be used via USB including native SACD/DSD output. This is far superior to SPDIF support as it has a higher peak throughput and more important provides an extreme stable clock jitter free interface.

When connected to my AMP the S/N ratio proved to be extremely good as even turning up the volume to the maximum hardly produces audible noise at the speakers even at extreme close range.

Media player integrated HiFi DAC alternatives:
The DIY unit is superior regarding HW design to the DAC audio panel included with Zidoo X20 Pro e.g that one is using the ES9038Q2M (mobile version) not the ES9038PRO chip and it has a far simpler PSU design. It is closer to the low cost DIY alternatives mentioned earlier. Music Players APP's which support native DSD output via USB won't find the Internal DAC of X20 Pro as it uses direct I2S interfacing instead of internal USB and does neither support native DSD. For me personally this is a deal-breaker
Apparently Zidoo realized there are more Audiophiles like me and added the Zidoo UHD2000 including a 5A 12V Linear PSU and USB interfacing the ES9038 via a XMOS chipset now. This specifically for those wanting the better design above all including native SACD/DSD sound. This model also works flawless with the HiByMusic APP but UAPP won't find the Audio Panel DAC. The Music Player can be well controlled turning on the TV using the Zidoo Controller APP on a smart phone (Android or Apple). The weak point of the UHD2000 for music after playing with it myself during tests turned out to be noise and heat control when populating the dual slots with HDD's (the very noisy fan needs to be on high then).

For those familiar with Eweat my DIY-DAC build is very close (not to call it identical) to the DAC included in their € 900,- Eweat R11 design. Eweat is not using all best available components as standard oscillator and AMP's for that main board are used. This can be seen using the zoom feature on the link attached.
The design includes external inputs via SPDIF and AES. Eweat R11 also includes an extra 12V Trigger plus IR In/Out panel and an additional Headphone panel (for those asking what all those other components are). They also included the 240V filter missing in my own design. Overall it is very complete and most likely sounds close to identical.
https://howtofirestick.com/

A full alternative is the new Dune HD Ultra 4K player which again seems to be using the same audio boards and PSU´s as the DIY-kit/Eweat R11 but is advertised to deploy only top quality components on those. Functionally the audio/DAC section and other features are identical to the Eweat R11 but obviously the players FW is very different. It is very expensive though list priced at a whopping € 1.500.
This is a very interesting move from Dune. The first Dune HD Ultra 4K announcements and pictures where clearly a clone of the Zidoo X20 Pro but the product actually launched now is a clone of the Eweat R11 instead. In contrary to Eweat Dune is going for the best possible result with that DAC design using only top quality components for both the DAC and PSU´s (according to their specs). The final design regarding components used is most likely even slightly superior to my DIY-kit? Only got a low resolution inside picture not revealing that level of detail but I do believe them here also seen the price asked for the player.
Dune bundles the HiByMusic APP for HD audio including SACD ISO similar to my own setup. For such an expensive player that is disappointing for me.
http://dune-hd.com/eng/products/full_hd_media_players

An interesting addition to this overview is the new Egreat A15 which clearly follows the Zidoo UH2000 design but must say coming with an even on many points improved version of it. The Audio Panel is based once again on the proven SABRE ES9038/XMOS/CPLD chips with dual-clock crystal oscillators plus all high end discrete components and gold plated connectors. It is even including a 6A 12V (70W) Linear PSU with a toroidal transformer.
It surprisingly comes with an USB PC input for the DAC! So it can be used with other USB sources too.
It has improved heat and noise provisions compared with UHD2000 among others using a temperature controlled variable speed fan and anti-vibration silencers for HDD mounts and the chassis as a whole. This is really excellent HW making it the best Audio HiFi media player from this list thus far. The part needing a review urgently is the Music APP coming with it. Egreat is not really known for good support on FW updates anymore unfortunately focusing on the Chinese market it seems.

All you need to know about SACD options and ISO/DSF/DFF file formats:
http://forum.zidoo.tv/index.php?threads/tutorial-sacd-options-and-iso-dsf-dff-file-formats.79385/
Remove this here to make space as it got over the word limit.

The Music Player APP choice to be used with the HW.
Obviously good HW is only as useful as the matching APP enables it. One can use the included Music APP coming with the player or use other Android APP's available for USB based DAC's.

Standard Zidoo Music Player 6 (Zidoo FW 6.1.05 on Z9X)
Connected my Amanero based USB DIY-kit DAC to my Z9X and that was now recognized playing both HD PCM and DoP/Native DSD flawless.

When connecting it reports nicely the brand/type found and which PCM (not DSD) formats are supported by it.
In fact switching between DSD64 and DSD128 causing problems using UAPP works just fine using MP6.
USB Output (On/Off) and DSD modes (D2P/DoP/Native) can be changed without needing a reboot or removing the DAC. When using MCH HT via HDMI and 2CH DAC via USB.
Using Music Player 6 obviously integrates nicely using the standard remote control or the Zidoo Controller APP for controls. This FW also supports Gapless Playback.
I understand MP6 is picky which DAC's are recognized. I think it is pretty safe to presume all XMOS and Amanero based USB DAC's will work.

USB Audio Player Pro (FW 4.4.1)
This APP was tested on my Egreat A11 and Zidoo Z9S successfully. No OS or platform compatibility problems found. It will also work without an USB DAC being attached but it was designed specifically for that deployment. Installed it on my Egreat A11/Zidoo Z9S without it using the default Android Audio driver included (=48 kHz 16-bit output for all source formats).

Findings:
- Paid the license (about € 7,-) via the Google Play Store and it got activated automatically.
- Support for almost all Stereo HR Audio sources including DSD/SACD formats makes this APP also special. Currently only missing support for DST compressed DFF files.
- It next does not play DTS-CD's.
- The players UI needs some time getting used to. It e.g. uses all 4 corners for scattered controls. For some operations a mouse is required (a cursor mouse works but a pointer mouse is better) .
- All sources are played truly gapless which is always nicer and essential for live recordings!

The player is around for several years already and is praised for the sound it can produce. True gapless playback for formats supported seems stable including CUE sheets. It also has an active forum and ongoing software development.
http://www.extreamsd.com/index.php/products/usb-audio-player-pro

HiByMusic (FW3.3.0_International_build_5511)
Added this player because of its quality and being absolutely free to use.
It is the makers intention to be used with their own server database and their own DAC's.
- It has very extensive playback capabilities including all common HR PCM formats and all SACD DSD formats even including DST compressed DFF and obviously ISO.
- It handles CUE Sheets, DTS-CD's (Stereo output) and can also will play Gapless when selected.

Hiby Music in fact is a real alternative to USB Audio Player Pro with even wider native audio format support (DST DSD and DTS-CD included). The big real drawback is controlling the HibyMusic UI which will only work via touch/mouse field actions. Any standard IR/BT remote is absolutely useless with this APP.
There is an option though to run HibyMusic just in Server mode on the Zidoo and HibyMusic in Client mode on a smartphone. That way the Storage and the Audio Playback (via USB DAC + AMP) of the media player is used controlling the UI integrally via the smartphone.
Getting that Client/Server setup to work via BT was not exactly hassle free. It e.g. uses a special UAT profile with BT which required WiFi on both sides to be turned off. The stability of client/server mode is definitely far lower than using the APP directly.

ONKYO HF Player (FW 2.4.0)
This is a real alternative player to be used with external USB DAC's. Worked straight with my setup too. For HQ playback the license is € 9,50 for SQ playback it is free (with minimal advertisements).
Also this APP is really designed for Smart-Phones and needs also to be controlled using a pointer-mouse, which next works just fine. Differences are:
- There is also the free version reducing playback to SR but still handling all albums including SACD DSF and DFF.
- Very smooth on the controls and actions. Playback is gapless.
- No support for SACD ISO directly just DSF and DFF (not DST) track formats.
- Can toggle USB DAC or HDMI outputs via setup which is nice.
- Can real-time convert PCM to DSD which I have never seen before!
There is still development for this player but no forum.

Practical experiences
Installed it and next connected via USB2 (with a USB-hub in-between).

Functional experiences
After toggling some settings in the USB Audio Player Pro almost all my audio formats come out as they should except for:
- DTS-CD (the alternative via HDMI is just fine for me as that is really MCH)
- SACD using 2CH DFF tracks with DST compression (not really a commonly used format, but yes it is very efficient on HDD space)
Got PCM 24-bit sample rates up to 384 kHz and DSD up to DSD128 working via USB. UP-sampling is also available as an option with USB Player Pro but not used by me. Finally can compare native DSD64 with FLAC 88.2 conversions.
- Using an External DAC one can in fact play music via the DAC and watch a movie via HDMI including sound concurrently. Using 2 different HDD's and playing a BD plus SACD with DSD that worked also in practice during tests without disruptions. This even sharing also the AMP associating the Analog port with a second speaker zone.
- The worst part is getting my USB DAC to work together with a RF Pointer Mouse. Android has a conflict here and it is a real hassle to get to work both at the same time. Did not find a solution to it yet.

Practical sound experiences
Obviously my findings here are subjective like hell, but most should be common for many.

Sound quality perceived depends on: Quality of the Album ==> Speakers ==> Amplifier. The role and sense of an External DAC depends on that. I try to invest my good money smart in that sequence.

With good quality speakers and medium range Home Theater AMP as a start it makes sense to add a high quality External DAC.
My AMP for comparison is an Onkyo TX-RZ720 which works just fine. It has a decent AKM AK4458 DAC built-in and uses proprietary DSP based Digital Filters for Front Left/Right channels.

a) For most CD's played in MP3/FLAC format the audible difference is minimal.
For very good recordings it may be perceptible doing blind checks.
b) For most SACD played in native DSD the reverse is true.
Most will sound noticeable better using the DAC (and far better than the CD).
Also the difference between converted to FLAC tracks and the native DSD tracks of the same recording can be heard clearly.
c) Using Onkyo HF Player there is an option to convert PCM => DSD which works remarkable well with my DAC including MP3's. Output just sounds crisper and clearer that way. Blind tests with visitors showed it was heard not only by myself. For quality CD recordings the difference is bigger than for cheap collection CD´s but the difference is almost always audible. The driver is still in development and is not flawless yet.
d) Could not compare DSD via HDMI and the AMP versus USB via the DAC as the media players don't support this. The AMP supports MCH DSD too which is dearly missed.

For DTS-CD and (Pure Audio) BD albums I prefer the Multi Channel sound of my AMP above the 2-channel down-mixing via the External DAC for most albums. MCH SACD is not that easy as it varies per recording but often I prefer MCH (alas only getting that with this setup currently via FLAC).

Bottom-line I am very pleased with my setup/purchase. It was a bit of a gamble but worked out just fine.

Looks okay to me!